This
conversation was cut and pasted from a Facebook message conversation, and
additionally edited by me, Terry Kimmel aka Cattleworks.
Also, you can read Mermaid Heather’s,
Zombie Dawn’s and my own review for THE BLACK ROOM at the links.
NOTE: When we had this conversation, I
still hadn’t posted my review for THE BLACK ROOM and hadn’t read ZOMBIE DAWN’s
review.
Also, WARNING: This conversation about
the movie does CONTAIN SPOILERS! So, read at your own peril if you haven’t seen
the film yet!
Enjoy!
ZOMBIE DAWN: We have all
arrived for the powwow.
MERMAID HEATHER: Yay!
ZOMBIE DAWN: 5 minutes
into that movie, I wasn’t sure if I could do it.
MERMAID HEATHER: Why would
that be, Dawn?
CATTLEWORKS: Oh, dear!
Sorry, Dawn! (considering I picked the movie)
ZOMBIE DAWN: Oh, the
acting first off kinda put me off, then like I said in my review, I kinda fell
in love with it for just that reason!
The credits totally
reminded me of that old show Amazing Stories. Do you guys remember that show?
CATTLEWORKS: Oh, I wasn’t
thinking of that, but now that you mention it, yes, I see the similarity.
MERMAID HEATHER: I didn't watch it much,
but yes I remember it.
ZOMBIE DAWN: And the guy
that who played Paul (Lukas Hassel). Loved his acting. It was a lot of fun.
MERMAID HEATHER: I agree with you there, Dawn,
he was my favorite of the bunch.
ZOMBIE DAWN: Hahaha!! That scene!! With
Karen in the bedroom and him trying to seduce her!!
Tell me that wouldn’t have
gone differently, hahaha!!
She seemed like “yeah,
whatever”.... whaaaaaat?!
CATTLEWORKS: I’ll be honest,
I was on the fence and I was curious what Heather thought about the film, so I
took a quick peek at her review. I was just curious what you thought, Heather,
because I know you like (writer/director) Rolfe Kanefsky.
But I was kind of thumbs
down.
ZOMBIE DAWN: I can totally see that.
But I also like films like
BAD TASTE.
CATTLEWORKS: The film was
very inconsistent for me and the things that bugged me kind of got the better
of me.
Well, I feel I’m
inconsistent as a reviewer as well, so I’m really self-conscious when I get
critical. But a few little things kept happening at the beginning, and so the
film was sort of trying to get out of the hole it dug, for me, anyway.
ZOMBIE DAWN: I hear ya!
MERMAID HEATHER: I was in the middle for
the most part. I can see why people don't like the film, but it isn't that far
off from Kanefsky's other films, so I guess I was more forgiving.
ZOMBIE DAWN: Hahaha, yeah I wrote and
then deleted a lot of stuff that I thought was too critical.
I have a lot of respect
for filmmakers and the work that goes into the craft.
I’ll have to look at your
review again for those titles, Heather.
CATTLEWORKS: But I liked
Lukas Hassel as Paul, too.
ZOMBIE DAWN: And the guy in
the beginning... plumber? HVAC guy? Would he really be so bold?
CATTLEWORKS: I think you mean the
furnace guy. The plumber guy is the one who gets decapitated.
ZOMBIE DAWN: Hahaha!!! I
met the plumber guy (James Duval)!!! He’s super nice!!
At a con, of course.
MERMAID HEATHER: At one of your
conventions?
ZOMBIE DAWN: Yeah, I think it was
Crypticon. Maybe 4-5 years back.
MERMAID HEATHER: I hope you get to meet him
again, loved that death scene.
ZOMBIE DAWN: Yeah!!! I
totally didn’t expect that, haha!!
CATTLEWORKS: Yeah, Robert
Donovan who played the furnace dude, he was interesting because I think when he
was coming on to Jennifer, I think that was meant as comedy, but it came across
more genuinely creepy. I actually thought the actor was good, but the tone was
more serious than you would expect.
ZOMBIE DAWN: Agreed, Terry.
How about the end scene?
Did you guys call it?
CATTLEWORKS: Wait, which
end scene? The very end with Paul and Jennifer in bed?
ZOMBIE DAWN: Haha, yeah
Terry.
I was like “ohhhhh, here
comes the evil eyes,” hahaha!
MERMAID HEATHER: There was an end scene after
the credits, too.
ZOMBIE DAWN: Oh shit!
Really?
Dang!!!
I’ll have to watch and
amend my review then!
MERMAID HEATHER: I was a little surprised
by the scene you were talking about, but it didn't feel like a big shock.
ZOMBIE DAWN: I totally called it, based on the movie as a whole.
CATTLEWORKS: I thought
that was a good way to end it. A pseudo-YOUNG FRANKENSTEIN reference (not
really) re: Paul’s “equipment” and then Jennifer’s look to the camera, which
was great.
MERMAID HEATHER: The after
credits scene is just Tiffany Shepis (who played the realtor) giving her speech
to a new owner.
It wasn't much really.
ZOMBIE DAWN: Ahhhh.... but would that
work? With the incubus inside of Jennifer now?
I’d think the house would
just be a house again.
MERMAID HEATHER: Well, there is the gateway
there so maybe it would still want to use the house.
ZOMBIE DAWN: True that. All the sigils
and whatnot are there...
CATTLEWORKS: Yeah, that
ending with Tiffany Shepis talking to the next buyers’ of the house does seem
to possibly contradict the ending with Jennifer now being possessed.
Maybe they couldn’t make
up their mind which ending worked best and decided to put them both in.
Based on your review,
Heather, it seems people have been turned off by the sexual aspects of the film?
MERMAID HEATHER: It would seem so, Terry. Lot of reviews put down the soft porn
aspect of it.
ZOMBIE DAWN: Honestly, I
went in blind.
I had no idea it was an
incubus.
Some of it was
predictable, but some of it was WTF?
Just thought of that
restaurant scene. Paul was on a roll there. I don’t think there was a woman
safe from his influence...
But... boobs on the back?
Oh jeez!
CATTLEWORKS: Hahaha! Yeah!
MERMAID HEATHER: I had to roll my eyes at
that. It was kind of left hanging out there as well.
ZOMBIE DAWN: Hahahaha!!!
MERMAID HEATHER: Although, she did say she
wanted her boobs back.
ZOMBIE DAWN: OMG, you’re right!!!
Hahahaha!!!
CATTLEWORKS: Hahaha! I’ve
only seen Kanefsky’s THE HAZING a few years ago, so I chalk that up to
Kanefsky’s sense of humor.
ZOMBIE DAWN: What was the
line that made you laugh from Lin Shaye, Heather?
MERMAID HEATHER: Just the
way she told her granddaughter to put some clothes back on.
ZOMBIE DAWN: Hahaha!!
MERMAID HEATHER: With that opening scene,
Terry, I was wondering if you were trying to turn us on so we would talk dirty
to you during this conversation, lol.
ZOMBIE DAWN: Bwahahaha!!!!!
CATTLEWORKS: Actually, I
was feeling very self-conscious and I imagined you guys in the same room
watching the film with me—not in a comfortable way, he said blushing.
ZOMBIE DAWN: Lol, Terry!!
Oh, and I totally had that
thought, too, Heather! About THE ENTITY. Like you mentioned in your review.
(Re: the ending) After Lin
Shaye’s character helped Jennifer there in the end, I was rolling!
She looked like she was
totally at home, just chillin’ and not in an embryonic sac having the life
leeched from her!
CATTLEWORKS: Haha! I
thought Jennifer biting that umbilical cord was pretty funny.
ZOMBIE DAWN: Oh my god, I
loved it!!!
MERMAID HEATHER: I hope
she doesn't bite while doing something else.
CATTLEWORKS: Heather: Oh,
dear.
ZOMBIE DAWN: Hahahaha
Heather!!!!
And when she’s pushing
that umbilical back in?!? Her line “sometimes you have to. PUSH. HARD.”
I was like “ok, I just
can’t even with that.”
Hahahaha!!
CATTLEWORKS: Yeah, it took
me a minute to figure out what exactly she was doing—it turned out to be a
“vacuum thing”.
ZOMBIE DAWN: Ahhh, hahaa!!
CATTLEWORKS: I thought
Lukas Hassel was great and I liked Natasha Henstridge as well.
ZOMBIE DAWN: Oh yeah, and
I agree with Heather. (Natasha Henstridge’s) acting has improved.
Duty calls. Time to pick
the girl child up from work.
Thanks for including me,
guys!
CATTLEWORKS: I’ll
definitely finish and post my review tonight.
ZOMBIE DAWN: Can’t wait to
see it!
CATTLEWORKS: I’m glad you
can participate. I look forward to reading your review.
MERMAID HEATHER: Glad that you could join
us!
ZOMBIE DAWN: Thank you!
(Zombie Dawn leaves
conversation)
CATTLEWORKS: Do you have
to head out as well, Heather?
MERMAID HEATHER: I can
stay longer if you wish.
CATTLEWORKS: Cool.
While working on my review
earlier today, I was re-watching parts of the film. Part of me was wondering if
I was just being grumpy or tired or just out of it when I first watched it, and
that’s why I didn’t like it as much as I did, but I was still distracted by the
same bits when I re-watched it. Having said that, the parts I liked, I also still
liked. So, I think the film is genuinely a mixed bag, and on top of it is the
sexual aspect of the film. Which I had no problem with. Except for my
aforementioned self-consciousness…
MERMAID HEATHER: lol You
know I would have to give you a hard time if we were watching it in the same
room.
CATTLEWORKS: OMG,
considering the context of this conversation, that doesn’t sound right, hahaha!
I didn’t realize Kanefsky
did the EMMANUELLE films that were on Skinamax, although doing an IMDb search
on Robert Donovan, I see he was also in those. I’ve seen some of those films in
part, which explains why he looked familiar to me. Mostly, I was struck by Donovan’s
voice. I thought he had a cool voice.
MERMAID HEATHER: What bugged you the most
about the movie?
CATTLEWORKS: You know, it
was really small, specific things, and I felt like a jerk even talking about them
in my review.
Weird shit. Trivial shit,
but I found it distracting enough that it bugged me.
Or, I should say, it took
me out of the film. Like, when the grandmother is arguing with the demon at the
beginning, the film cuts back and forth between that argument and also the
demon preying on the granddaughter. I found that confusing.
MERMAID HEATHER:
I get you. As I said, it wasn't the soft
porn part of the story that made me like this movie less, but smaller things as
well. Mostly it had to do with the story.
If it was sexual energy
the demon wanted/needed...why kill nearly everyone to get it? I'm pretty sure a
dead body isn't thinking sexual thoughts anymore.
CATTLEWORKS: Yeah, that’s
inconsistent, too.
When the furnace man is
sort of fondling Jennifer at the washer, I get the idea but it was also strange
how they were getting that idea across, too. Like, I thought it worked, but not
really. I get what they were doing, but for some reason I was getting hung up
on how they were showing it. So, I more or less was biding my time watching
this sequence.
And a lot of things were
kind of technical, I guess.
Like, for instance, when
the furnace man is being dragged backwards in the doorway, and his one hand is
being caught in the door (and the door is closing on his fingers) and he’s
screaming. Part of me is thinking, okay, I see what’s going on, yes, that would
be painful. But, part of me was also wondering why I was kind of detached,
like, I was registering all this intellectually, rather than being emotionally moved.
Because that’s a horrible thing having a door closing on your fingers like
that! That should be a really squeamish moment for the audience, seeing that
and imagining how that would feel. I think (we, the audience, don’t feel that)
because you don’t really see the edge of the door closing on the guy’s fingers.
And I was still thinking about that scene today (I re-watched that scene last
night) and I’m wondering why they shot it that way. Of course, this is a very
subjective question. Most people would think there wasn’t a problem in the
first place! But, I have a possible reason why it was shot the way it was. They
had to rig the door in such a way that they could close it and also have the
actor’s fingers in the way. So, I’m assuming they widened the gap between the
door and where it’s hinged to the frame. If you shoot it from the angle they
shot it at, it looks like the door is
closing in on the man’s fingers. But if you shoot it where it would look the
most painful, with the door pressing on the fingers as it’s trying to close,
they can’t because the gap is wider now so you’ll see that the door isn’t even
touching his fingers now (I’m assuming). Does that make sense? Yeah, stupid
shit like this is what grips my thoughts!
OMG, this is as
interesting as, well, like trying to explain a joke! Sorry sorry sorry!
MERMAID HEATHER:
You are fine. I get what you are saying
about it and I agree.
CATTLEWORKS: It was cool
seeing Dominique Swain in the film. It’s been so long since I’ve seen her in a
film, I couldn’t figure out why the actress looked familiar, hahaha!
Although, I had issues
with Stacy (Dominique Swain’s character) thinking that her husband, Howard
(Caleb Scott) ate too much, because he really didn’t look that fat, and that
distracted me, too.
MERMAID HEATHER: I know but everyone has
their idea of how fat someone should or shouldn't be.
CATTLEWORKS: Yes, but for
me, him not being obviously overweight to some degree sort of complicated the
joke, tho’ you can also interpret it that Stacy just has hang-ups. Having said
that, the idea of her being sexually repressed works when Paul says that to her
when he’s sucking her sexual energy out.
You know, re-watching the
parts made me also enjoy the parts I did like.
MERMAID HEATHER: I watched it Friday night
after work so I was feeling tired when I started it. At times I would perk up
and get into the movie and there were times when I started feeling very tired
again.
CATTLEWORKS: I was shocked
when Paul kills Karen during sex! I was like, really!? She seemed like a strong
character. Of course, I didn’t expect to see her again, but then she does
re-appear in a significant way.
MERMAID HEATHER: Having the dead help the
demon was kind of an odd choice to me.
I could see them getting
possessed and helping.
CATTLEWORKS: Yeah, I think
there were some plot choices that made no logical sense but seemed like a cool
thing to do in a genre film.
It was weird. I think I’m
usually a much more forgiving audience for a film, especially a genre film, but
I guess I also become fixated on things almost arbitrarily.
MERMAID HEATHER: I liked Karen. Her line
after seeing Paul naked cracked me up.
CATTLEWORKS: Yeah! Her
makeup seemed a bit over the top, but I think that was for comic effect.
MERMAID HEATHER: At first I thought she was
just that pale, but in close-ups you can see the makeup. She looked a lot
better once they no longer did that.
CATTLEWORKS: I felt there
was genuine tension in the first conversation between Paul, Jennifer and Karen.
I thought Karen was a real horrible person for no reason, and her explanation
after the fact when she’s alone with Jennifer seemed a little too late. I had
to warm up to her, although when Paul’s possessed and eyeing all the waitresses
blatantly, Karen’s reactions seemed more understandable.
The flashback to the party
in the basement in the 70s was fun for nostalgic reasons, although the
outrageousness of complete strangers coming to a party and having this demonic
ceremony out of the blue is absurd, but I think that’s for comic effect, too.
Sort of like, “of course, strangers would do this, it’s a horror movie!”
Although, I’m also
thinking, you tell the woman to stay in the circle AFTER she runs out? D’oh!
Is that whole Spirit Board
reference an INSIDIOUS in-joke? I’ve never seen the movies, but after the fact,
I was wondering.
MERMAID HEATHER: I don't
recall there being one in that movie, but it has been a long time since I
watched it.
CATTLEWORKS: I only
wondered because I only know of Ouija boards and so I wondered what the hell a
Spirit Board was. It also seemed to be out of the blue since it never really
affects the plot at all.
Yeah, I was going back and
forth between picking THE BLACK ROOM and DON”T KILL IT. Mike Mendez directed
DON’T KILL IT, but then I wasn’t sure how much of a horror film it was. But,
considering you like Rolfe, I went the Kanefsky way.
MERMAID HEATHER: You didn't have to but I'm glad that you did. May have taken me
longer to have gotten around to it otherwise.
CATTLEWORKS: The one
interesting thing about this movie, I think, is contemplating how sexual
subject matter is perceived in film now, especially with the recent #MeToo
movement. I don’t mean to be political, but I think it’s a sign of the changing
cultural landscape in terms of how much subject matter is responded to now.
Nudity was a sort of given
decades ago when Roger Corman was regularly producing drive-in fare. Nudity and
violence were simply exploitable plot elements.
I was thinking about this
as I was writing my review especially when I was talking about the granddaughter
being visited by the demon in the prologue.
MERMAID HEATHER: True. I think in some ways
the movement has been taken too far, but that is a different conversation.
I have never been much of
a fan of a horror/soft porn cross, but I have nothing against anyone that does
enjoy it. Going into this film, and realizing quickly where it was somewhat
going, I wasn't sure how much I would like it.
CATTLEWORKS: Yes, that is
a different conversation. But, mores have genuinely changed, too. I started to
write in my review that the demon “seduces” the young woman as she sleeps, but
that’s a euphemism. He’s actually assaulting her. But she doesn’t realize it,
because she’s enjoying it, and it’s implied that she thinks she’s enjoying an
erotic dream. From a male perspective, it’s enjoyable to watch because it’s a
naked attractive woman enjoying sexual pleasure, so the voyeuristic button is
being pushed.
The scene where Paul
(possessed by the incubus) attacks Karen works with a sort of mainstream horror
audience, too, I think, because they’re pushing the monster aspect more. If it
was straight-up assault, it would have changed the tenor of the film entirely,
I think, and for the worse. Although, you pointed out that there apparently is
some criticism of the porn element, anyways. Although, it shows how jaded I am,
because the porn aspect didn’t seem that pornographic, haha!
MERMAID HEATHER: No, it didn't. The opening scene borders on it, but as Dawn
pointed out, it reminded us both a lot of THE ENTITY so maybe that is what
Kanefsky was nodding at for that scene.
CATTLEWORKS: I thought the
special effects for that scene were pretty impressive.
MERMAID HEATHER: Was it
the effects you were truly impressed by? lol
CATTLEWORKS: Yes, your
honor!
Impressive because they
seemed believable.
So, I have to track down
Kanefsky’s first film now, THERE’S NOTHING OUT THERE.
And I’ve never seen NIGHTMARE MAN.
MERMAID HEATHER:
What is taking so long?
CATTLEWORKS: Look who
you’re talking to!
What else have you seen by
him? We both saw THE HAZING. Have you seen anything else?
MERMAID HEATHER: Just
NIGHTMARE MAN and now this movie as far as I can tell.
CATTLEWORKS: Okay.
Well, anything else you
wanna say or discuss about THE BLACK ROOM?
MERMAID HEATHER: Just one other thing.
While I was confused about the feeding, I was pretty impressed by the set they
came up with for that.
CATTLEWORKS: Yeah, it was
very imaginative. In a completely different way, I also thought the flashback
party scene was fun and imaginative, too. I also thought Karen’s make-up was
great when she was killed. I thought Dawn Black (the granddaughter character)’s
burn makeup on her face was alright, though. I felt it should’ve been worse. Or,
at least, her hair should’ve been shorter or completely gone (although,
granted, we see her two years after the furnace incident). Man, I was just a
difficult audience throughout this film, haha!
Also, I didn’t realize
that “incubus” and “succubus” were gender-related terms. The first is a male
demon, the second female.
MERMAID HEATHER:
How long have you been a horror fan again?
lol
CATTLEWORKS: Maybe too
long! Maybe I knew it and forgot it!
MERMAID HEATHER: Sounds
like a good excuse to me, lol
CATTLEWORKS: Well, I guess
we’re done then for tonight?
MERMAID HEATHER: I guess so. It was fun talking to you and Dawn about this movie. I'm
looking forward to the next one. :)
CATTLEWORKS: Hey, we
did two of these things! That’s some crazy-ass crazy-assery!
Thanks for talking a
little longer!
MERMAID HEATHER: No problem. Talk to you
again soon.
CATTLEWORKS: :)
There ya go! My apologies to Mermaid Heather and Zombie Dawn for taking so damn long to post this! My editing process wasn’t the most practical.
It did NOT go through that time, either...
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